Get Up And Code 048: Brian Lagunas: XAML and Oats
In this episode, I got to talk to my hometown buddy, Brian Lagunas. Brian is a Program Manager for Infragistics and a former bodybuilder.
In this episode, I talk to Brian about his new fitness goals and how he is gaining muscle by eating clean.
Full transcript below:
John: Hey everyone, welcome back to Get Up and CODE. I am here today with a buddy of mine from my hometown Brian Lagunas. He’s actually a product manager for Infragistics but I know him from Boise, Idaho where I used to live, where he still lives. Actually he’s in the bodybuilding scene. He’s done some bodybuilding competitions and we’ve shared some tips before. I definitely wanted to talk to him some more and figure out exactly what he’s doing and I think that would be pretty good information for the show. Welcome to the podcast.
Brian: Hello. Thanks for having me and yeah, I’ve got to say Boise is just not the same without you. Ever since you left there’s just this cloud just covering the city and it never leaves. It’s all gloomy. It’s just not the same without you.
John: Well you guys got Nathan buried now, don’t you?
Brian: I wouldn’t know. I don’t know Nathan.
John: Oh okay, okay. But yeah, why don’t you introduce yourself a little bit. Tell everyone what you do and your background.
Brian: My name is Lagunas as John mentioned. I’m a product manager for Infragistics. I am in control of all the cool ____ 0:01:34 controls, the stuff people actually use to build real applications, cool ____ 0:01:39 guys. I’ve been working with Infragistics for about 2 years now. I’m also heavily involved in the community, MVP, Microsoft Patterns & Practices Champion, all that mumbo-jumbo that most people don’t care about. If guys wanted a … if you wanted to learn more about me you can just go to my blog brianlagunas.com and read all the stuff that I do.
John: Awesome, awesome and PluralSight courses too, right? You’ve got a few of those.
Brian: Yeah, I do PluralSight courses as well and that’s one of the things I always forget to tell people is like the one thing I should be telling them I completely forget to tell. It’s just one of those things.
John: That’s all right. Yeah, so the bodybuilding background I’m really interested. We never really talked in depth about this. Now is a better time than any. Tell me what got you started and what is your history with bodybuilding?
Brian: Well, what actually got me started was—most people don’t know I was in the army back from ‘97 to 2001 I believe, a while ago and I had a really nasty back injury. At the time being 6’3” the army doesn’t like muscular guys. What you see on TV that’s not how it really is. Muscular guys take too much energy to feed. It’s too much to feed. They burn too much energy. They can’t last. I was light infantry so I was about 155 lbs, 150 lbs, 6’3” but a lean mean killing machine. You just go forever. Endurance was crazy. You run 10 miles without breaking a sweat.
John: 6’3” you would have been ripped to the bone I think.
Brian: Right, lean, lean.
John: Yeah, because I’m 6’3” and I’m 230 lbs.
Brian: Yeah, so you could see every striation everywhere back then, but it was a different type of fitness, right?
Brian: Anyways, so I had a pretty bad back injury during a night training phase. It led to me getting medically discharged from military. Pain, back pain like crazy, my knees are shot. During my physical therapy I started lifting really light weights and then I got a personal trainer because the VA physical therapy really sucks. I went to the private sector, got some training, started noticing some pain relief. Okay, we started strengthening my core muscles, really concentrated on weight lifting and then my pain started to subside, my chronic pain that I’ve had for years. That’s what actually got me into lifting is that I got really serious. I started eating like crazy.
To make a long story short basically in 10 months I gained about 50 lbs of lean muscle while eating right and lifting 6 days a week.
John: Okay, awesome. Now did you go and compete after this? Where did this take you?
Brian: Yeah, so I was trying to compete on the novice level because being my size, being 6’3” and about 215 or so you’d be competing against those short really buff stocky dudes who are like 5’2” and weigh about 215. My weight class—my height was really killing me in my weight class so I really tried to get to the novice side of things. But yeah, it was an interesting experience. I ate a lot differently back then than I’m eating now. Back then I was eating about 5500, 6000 calories a day. I really didn’t care about watching my macronutrients, the balance between my carbohydrates, my protein and my fat intake. A lot of the weight you would pack on would be a lot of fat but then you have to kill yourself, I mean literally kill yourself to trim down. It’s very difficult and hard on the body as well.
John: Right, exactly. Yeah, so let’s talk about what you’re doing now. I think there’s a Facebook update you said something like you’re trying to stuff your face with 3000 calories and then people were railing on you because of that. I thought you must be getting ready to compete or something here.
Brian: So my fitness goals have changed. It doesn’t mean I don’t get to eat less it just means I’m working out differently. Back when I was trying to get into the bodybuilding scene that was—now it has been like 12 years ago, it was a long time, before I had kids, before I had a family. Now kids and family really throw a wrench into plans especially fitness goals. It makes it difficult. So I got a little soft. I lost a lot of weight. I’m the opposite of most people. If I don’t work out and don’t eat I lose weight.
John: Yeah, I don’t think you’ll have many sympathizers with you except for the few hard gainers that are listening to the show.
Brian: Yeah, if you have any hard gainers they feel my pain and it’s quite frustrating. Now my goal is to just be fit, be healthy. I want to be back up to about 215 would probably be a good weight for me because 6’3” I think 215 is a good walking around weight. I’ve only been working out solid for about 6 weeks now. I started my diet out with about 2800 calories a day. Cardio 3 times a week for 30 minutes, high intensity cardio. Basically I would do cardio for 3 minutes, just a normal jog type pace and then sprint all out for a minute then go 3 minutes normal, sprint, so high intensity, do that for 30 minutes.
Yeah, in those 5 weeks, in about 5 weeks I dropped 5% body fat. From 22% to 16 and gained 4 lbs of lean muscle and dropped 8 lbs.
John: Oh wow, you did something right there. That’s awesome.
Brian: Yeah, I lost a little too much weight though. I was in too much of a calorie deficit. My metabolic rate is just crazy high. Now I bumped my calories up just the other day to 3155 and my macronutrient balance is—I try to take in 50% carbs so for those who may not be to this level yet or are tracking things to this level your macronutrients—the main ones I’m concerned about are my protein, my carbohydrates and my fat intake. I try to balance a percentage. When I want 50% carbs I want maybe 30% protein 20% fat. What that means is if I were to take all the fat, all the carbs and all the grams of protein that I take in in a day and I calculate how many of that was carbs, how many of that was protein, how much of that is fat I need 50% of that to be carbs, I need 30% of that to be protein, I need 20% to be fat. That’s a good balance for my body to build lean muscle.
John: Right, exactly. That’s interesting. I just did an episode where I talked about my diet and what I was doing and it’s an interesting comparison because we’re both 6’3” but we have definitely different metabolisms. I’m not a hard gainer. I have trouble losing weight if anything. You’re trying to lift your weight up. I’m trying to bring mine down. It’s interesting that you’re at a 50% split on the carbs and then you said is it 30% protein, 20% fat?
John: Mine is actually, since I’m trying to drop weight but I’m also trying to keep lean muscle mass my percentages are a lot different. They’re more like 40% fat, 40% protein and then the extra 20% is carb. It’s interesting to look at the differences. The goals is really going to define how a person is structuring their macronutrients in that case. I’m glad that we have this contrast because I wanted to make it clear. Don’t do what I’m doing necessarily like you have to match it to what your goal is and what your body type and metabolism is.
Brian: Being around weights and nutrition as long as you and I have it’s funny when I hear all these weird diets and all these fads that come out. Honestly, it’s hard to get a diet that works for everybody. Eating is a science, it really is. It’s personalized. It’s different for everybody. I’ve never been on the same nutrition plan as somebody else ever because their body processes food differently than mine does. That guy might have some allergies and he can’t eat this or he might have some type of intestinal problem and he can’t eat that but this guy is perfect and he can eat all this. His metabolic rate is different. It’s just a science. There’s a lot that goes into it.
John: Right. I liked your approach of how you started calories at 2800 and you’re like, okay, I’ve measured this. I know what my stats are. Then you’re like, obviously the thing that I need to do is bump this up versus—I think that’s the key thing is you were able to measure, you were able to see, hey these are the things that are causing the changes. I need to get more calories if I’m going to go the direction I want to go.
Brian: If you look at it how what we do for a living, when you’re writing a test you’re going to write your test and you want to measure your inputs and then you’ll have an output. You want to make sure your output is valid and your test is the pass or no pass. It’s the same thing. I approach it the same way. For one, when you’re getting into this or when you’re trying to make a change to your body don’t be in a hurry because it’s going to take time, it’s going to take work. Start with a plan and start small. I started at 2800 calories. What that allows me to do is have a baseline. Stay consistent. If you can stay consistent at 2800 calories now you have a strong baseline of measuring what your body is doing. Take all your measurements. Measure your body fat. Measure your circumferences around your muscle, around every muscle, even your calves. Do all those measurements. Get your baseline. If you can stay consistent now you can accurately make changes to your diet to change or reach your goal.
What a lot of people do that I don’t necessarily agree with is they’ll do one of 2 things. One, they’ll start out eating just a ton of food without knowing how their body processes that, how quickly do they burn those calories. Then they wind up packing on a lot of fat. Getting rid of fat is just hard. Or what they’ll do is maybe they’ll start out low but then they’ll up the calories like 600 calories or I’m going to add 1000 calories to my diet. Well, you’re in the same boat. You just picked a number out of the air and I’m just going to throw this at it and see how it works. It’s probably going to be way too much and you’re going to pack on a lot of fat and you’re going to have to work extra hard to burn that fat off.
John: Yep, yeah. You’ve got to make the gradual changes and measure it, otherwise you don’t know which way you’re going. Like you said, not every diet works for everyone. The only way you’re going to find out what’s working for you is to see it. I mean you can tell you, I can sit here and tell someone, “Hey you should eat this many calories and this is how you divide it up and this is how you should work out.” You might not have the same results that I have doing that.
Brian: Yeah, as we get older because we’re not young pups anymore your body will change. Over the span of a year I may have to come and change my percentage of my macronutrients. I may have to say, “You know what? I need to drop my carbs because my body doesn’t process it like it used to when I was a year younger.” It’s a little slower so I need to take in fewer carbs because I’m gaining too much weight, the wrong kind of weight because I’m trying to gain the lean muscle and gain as little bit of fat as possible. It’s really important you track what you’re doing.
I don’t know if you use an app for this but there’s a website I use. It’s free. It’s called My Fitness Pal.
John: Okay, yeah, yep.
Brian: Yeah, so I use that to track all my meals. Everything I put in my body I just type in there and track what I’m eating. I have my goals. It tells me how far I am from my goals. I will tell you this, people have no idea what they’re putting in their body unless they’re tracking it, no clue. You think you know? You think you know but you don’t know, right? You are eating a lot of junk. The amount of fat and sodium that we take in our daily diet it’s ridiculous.
John: Oh yeah, especially if you go out to eat. If you go out you go to like, I’ll pick on Cheesecake Factory but you get an entrée from there and then you get a piece of cheesecake and you’re like, “Whatever. At least I didn’t eat at McDonalds.” But then if you actually run those calories you’re like, “Really? I ate 4000 calories in one meal? Is that even possible?” It’s possible to even go higher than that in one single meal. It’s definitely important to track or to at least be aware of that. You could eat 3 days worth of calories in one sitting easily.
Brian: Oh yeah, easily, easily especially cheesecake. I mean one slice of cheesecake is probably 1200 to 1500 by itself.
John: Yeah, yeah.
Brian: That’s just plain cheesecake. If you’re adding all the cookies in it and the peanut butter and whipped cream and stuff that’s not even counting your meal you just ate that probably has lots of sauces, uses lots of butters. Yeah, it’s very surprising. You would be surprised if you started writing down what you eat every day.
John: So yeah, so what’s your diet like? What are you doing right now? How are you breaking up your meals? What are you basically eating?
Brian: Okay, well, you know what? I’ll tell you what. I’m just going to open up My Fitness Pal and I’ll read off what I ate yesterday. Okay, so I normally eat about 6 or 7 times a day.
Brian: I’m trying to hit around 3150 calories. I try not to go too far over that if possible. For example for breakfast I had a half cup measured dry of grits. I don’t know if you’ve ever made grits or oatmeal and you measure dry and then you make it and you see how much food that makes.
John: Right, it fills up. It absorbs a lot of that water.
Brian: It’s amazing how much that will make. After I have a half cup measured dry of grits I’ll have a cup of fruit. Yesterday I had strawberries, a cup of strawberries. I had a tablespoon of peanut butter. I had a cup of skim milk and then I mix that with a scoop of my protein powder. That’s only because when I have oats or like grit, it’s so much food I don’t want to eat my boiled eggs.
John: Right, yeah, that makes sense, yep.
Brian: It’s just a quick win for me to just get my protein through a small shake in the morning. Then I’ll snack on some yogurt. I might have some more fruit, nuts like almonds, flax seed things like that. For lunch I had a turkey sandwich so we’re talking 6 oz of turkey. Turkey is a really good meat for you. I had one piece of cheddar cheese. That’s kind of like my cheat. That’s where I get a lot of my fat. A tablespoon of light mayonnaise and then 2 pieces of wheat bread. For dinner I had 6 oz of chicken breast, a baked potato, a cup dried measured rice and then just a little bit of barbecue sauce just to give it some flavor. Then snacks, I just snack throughout the day as well to meet those calorie goals.
John: Okay. Yeah, do you vary your diet? Are you doing day A, day B, day C or you’re just eating the same thing every day or are you just going by feel but then tracking the calories as you go?
Brian: There are some foods when you really get into this you know what you could swap for. For example instead of oatmeal I might have grits. Instead of bacon you have turkey bacon because bacon is not that good for you. The turkey bacon is not that bad and it’s pretty good for you compared to regular bacon. You can get some things with some flavor in it, turkey sausage instead of a beef sausage. You can swap foods in and out like instead of chicken I might have salmon. I just switch it for another lean protein, so salmon or a turkey or something like that. You could swap foods and just really try to keep that balance between what you’re eating.
John: I see. It sounds like you don’t have a schedule that you’ve printed out that’s like, “Okay, I’m going to eat this for breakfast, lunch, dinner” but you know, you’ve got a framework. You’re like, “Okay, well, here’s my protein. I need to give out 40 grams of protein in this meal so today we’re going to do salmon.” It’s more flexible rather than the kind of here it is. It’s 11:15 time to eat those hard boiled eggs or …
Brian: Yeah, exactly. When you start tracking things you see where you are in the day. If I’m coming pretty close to my protein limit, like yesterday I was actually 24 grams over on my protein because I had too much protein in the day. It’s a balance. If I’m a little over on protein, whatever I eat next can’t have a lot of protein in it. I’m low on carbs so I’m going to have spaghetti with wheat noodles because that’s loaded with carbs and not a lot of protein, but I can have that.
John: Right, okay that makes sense. Yeah, so you’re definitely using your experience to know what to do as opposed to like a strict routine of exactly what you’re eating. One thing I bring up too, you said you were eating 6 to 7 small meals during the day. Some people listening will probably be a little confused because I’ve been doing an intermittent fasting type of routine. But definitely from what I’ve heard I could guess why that probably wouldn’t work the best for you is because if you try to consume all those calories in 2 meals especially things like grits where it floats up and oatmeal, I don’t think that would work too well, right?
Brian: Yeah, no, it doesn’t work well at all actually. If I were to do that there’s no way I would be able to get that much food in because in most people’s mind it’s like, “Oh, I could easily eat 3100 calories, that’s easy.” Yeah, if you’re eating fast food with big huge portions but if you’re eating a clean diet, just a balanced—I’m not even going to say clean, I’m just going to say a balanced diet, just a good healthy diet that is a lot of food to eat in a day. You really have to spread it out. I was eating up until 10 o’clock last night trying to get those last bits of calories in and that’s eating every 2 hours. I eat every 2 hours.
John: Exactly. That’s an interesting thing. I mean that just goes to show like for people that are listening to this show that are trying to lose weight really all you have to do is cook your own meals. If you limit your foods to you can either eat—you have to cook the meals and it has to be chicken, fish or rarely a lean beef and veggies and whole fruits, nothing processed you’re going to lose weight just by that just because like you said it’s so hard to eat that much stuff. I think that speaks to it of how hard it is to eat clean, eat whole foods, non-processed foods. It’s really hard to get fat eating those kinds of foods. Not because those foods wouldn’t make you fat it’s just that you can’t eat enough of them because it fills you up.
Brian: Yeah, exactly, especially vegetables. Holy cow! If you want to just pig out on something and get full and not really take in a lot of calories vegetables are going to do it for you. They’ll fill you up and there’s not a ton of calories in them. Another thing about eating a lot for people who are trying to lose weight is what eating multiple times a day does for you is it doesn’t make you starve by lunch time.
John: That’s a good point.
Brian: I had breakfast. I had a snack. I’m not starving hungry and I’m not going to gorge myself at lunch time because you went all this time without eating. If you’re eating every 2 hours you’re really never hungry throughout the day.
John: Yeah, that’s a good point. I go back and forth. With intermittent fasting for me it’s easier to not eat because once I’ve missed—gone in a fasting window I feel like it’s easier for me to maintain, keep working or whatever. That’s because I’ve got a strict diet. I know what I’m eating and I’ve measured those calories. If I skip a meal and then I were to just use my judgment to eat I would fall right into that trap like you’re saying. I would be like uh, yeah, then start eating a lot of food. Yeah, you’ve got to figure out what is going to work for you based on that.
Oh yeah, I was going to ask you about your work out plans. How many times are you hitting the gym? Because you’re trying to gain mass apparently here so what’s the plan there?
Brian: What I normally do is I’ll go 5 days a week Monday through Friday, weekends off. My weekends are dedicated family time. I spend enough time doing other stuff. I don’t work on the weekends. Monday through Friday I’ll just go through my routine. Yesterday was Monday. So yesterday I did shoulders, shoulders and abs and cardio. I change it up. I rotate every other week. My first week I might do four sets of 12 reps for each exercise I do. I’m going to lighten the weight a little bit and then do more repetitions of it, more times. Then the next week I’d probably drop it down. I’d go reps of 8 and maybe sets of 4, maybe 5 depending on how I’m feeling strength wise and do my sets. So yesterday was shoulders and then abs and then cardio. Today is going to be … what is today? Today is back day. I’ll do back. I do abs everyday but Friday. I’ll do cardio on Monday, Wednesday, Friday for 30 minutes the high intensity training I was telling you about. Wednesday is going to be arm day so biceps, triceps abs and cardio on Wednesday. Thursday I do chest and shoulders again. Everyone has that weak spot that they really want to work on. Mine is shoulders so I do shoulders twice a week and then Friday is a massive leg workout and then cardio right after that which is just killer. If you’ve done cardio on leg day you know how horrible that is. It kills you.
John: Yes. Are you hitting the squats and dead lifts? What’s your leg work out? Not enough people are working legs.
Brian: Nobody works legs but it’s very important especially if you’re trying to lose fat you have to work legs, you have to. If you’re going to the gym and you’re saying I want to lose weight, I want to lose fat. I’m not even going to say weight, I’m just going to say fat. If you just want to burn fat you need to work your legs. I have really bad knees, so I got to really do low impact leg exercises. I had a back injury so squats are not going to happen for me, but I do things such as split lunges which is just a body weight lunge. I just get some dumbbells and I limit my range of motion and this makes you a lunge where you don’t walk. You know how you lunge, you step forward, you squat down and lift up, you step forward. Well this is you just step forward and you squat down and come back up, squat down and come back up. Do that 12 times on one leg, switch legs, do it on the other side and do that about 4 times, 12 reps.
Then I’ll go over to a leg press machine. It’s the kind that come at an angle, they’re on rails. I’ll do that. I don’t go real heavy because like I said I got knee issues so I take it real light. I go more for reps and really burning the muscle. It’s hard to do when you’re trying to gain mass though. I’ll do 12 reps of that and then right after that I’ll super set it with 20 body squats. After I do the leg press hop right off 20 body squats. Man, you’re going to be exhausted. Do that 4 times.
Then I run over to the leg extensions, knock out some leg extensions 12 times super set that with leg curls 12 times and then do that for 4 sets.
John: Yeah, okay now I understand why you said it’s a killer.
Brian: Then you go over to just the leg curl and do just leg curls 12 reps for 4 sets. Then after that you go to do calves and you’ll do a standing calve raise and then go do a seated calve raise super set back and forth. Do 12 standing then do 12 seated and then rest for 2 minutes and then do that 5 times.
John: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. I think I’ll run.
Brian: Go run, have fun with that because your legs are just Jell-o.
John: Yeah, no, that’s good though, that’s good to have a good leg work out. Like I said a lot of guys don’t want to hit leg. Women like to hit the legs more but guys just don’t want to hit the legs.
Brian: Well guys just want to have that big puffy chest to walk around and poke out, right?
John: Exactly, yeah.
Brian: It’s an ego thing. You know the guys. You go to the gym. You see them walking around puffing their chest out and you look down at their legs and they’ve got no legs, like little chicken legs like what’s that, a big horn?
John: The foghorn leghorn guy.
Brian: Yeah, foghorn leghorn just like him, big little skinny legs and his big puffy chest. You don’t want to be that guy.
John: Yep, exactly. All right, cool, well that’s good. I’m glad to get the other perspective. I think a lot of times I talk about fat loss and losing but the gaining side and kind of the hard gainer perspective, big thing about keeping your carbs high like you’re doing I think is one of the key things if you’re a hard gainer, right? Do you agree with that?
Brian: Oh yeah, carbs are very important. They get a bad rep because of all of the diets like “Oh no, carbs are bad.” Actually carbs are a necessity to your life. They’re a great source of energy. They are your energy. If you’re feeling down and you’re just tired all the time, you’re in the gym and you have no energy you’re not eating enough carbs. It’s important because there are 2 different types of carbs. You have your simple carbs and your complex carbs. Simple carbs are your sugars right? Those are the bad ones. You don’t want to eat sugar. Your complex carbs are the ones you want to eat. They are the ones who give you the good energy so you can get through the workout and you feel good throughout the day. You’re not tired. When you just 8 hours of sleep and you wake up and you’re still exhausted you want to take in more carbs.
I also like to mention that while I’m trying to gain I wouldn’t consider myself a hard gainer because I’m not trying to be back in that bodybuilding scene. I’m just trying to get to a good weight for my size and just maintain that. I’m out of the body building scene but I just want to be fit. I just want to be healthy. I want to have that beach body. Summer is coming and I’m going to Disney Land and San Diego and I want to feel good with my shirt off.
John: Good, perfect. That’s good. I’m not really in the bodybuilding scene either. Unless you’re willing to do the things that you’ve got to do which are not healthy for you it’s impossible.
Brian: No, it’s really—yeah, bodybuilding, it can be really unhealthy for you especially when you get your—because those guys will go on stage they bring their body fat down to 4%, 3%. Think about how your body fat works. It’s not just fat around your skin and under your skin, it’s around your organs as well and it protects your organs and it feeds your organs. Your organs need fat as well. If you’re coming down that low so quickly because they’ll start cutting weeks before, pulling all the water out, not all the water out the muscles because then they start looking flat, but they’ll drink a lot of distilled water. It’s just really rough. I’m not at that level. I don’t want to be at that level just healthy.
John: Right, exactly, yeah. It’s interesting too just real quick the height I think. I never had really talked about the height. But you being someone who’s tall like me, 6’3”, it’s very hard to fill out. For anyone listening that’s tall you have the potential of being stronger but it’s going to take a lot to realize that potential. Someone who’s shorter their potential is minimized. They can only get so strong, they can only get so big just when you look at the leverage and the way things work. I guess that’s one thing like tall people have it a little bit harder to gain the mass to fill out the chest, to make your legs not look lanky.
Brian: You’re right on with that. I mean our legs are so long, the muscles are so long to add girth to that, to put mass around the muscle and make the muscle bigger around the bone, very difficult for us. It’s hard for us to fill out a shirt unless you’re buying larges. I’m wearing a 2XL now but I’m never going to fill out a 2XL unless I’m a body builder because I’d have to be 260 lbs to have arms that big. Right now I have 16 inch arms, they aren’t huge but they’re not small either. It’s tough for tall guys definitely.
John: All right. Well, thanks for doing the show. I almost always forget our sponsor for the podcast, SignalLeaf. If you are looking to start your own podcast make sure you go to signalleaf.com. Check them out. They sponsor our show. They host our podcast. Hey if you’re listening to it, it’s obviously up, so that’s good, right? Check it out and let them know that you heard about SignalLeaf from Get Up and CODE. Don’t forget to go to getupandcode.com to check out our page and leave a review on iTunes if you don’t mind, if you enjoy this just so other people can find it. So yeah, that’s it. That’s all I’m plugging today. Thanks again Brian for coming on the show.
Brian: No problem, I enjoyed it and hopefully I can come on again. I mean we can probably talk about this forever and guys will just get tired of hearing us.
John: Definitely. Well, yeah, definitely, let me know when you hit your goal and stuff and we can do a retrospective and kind of see how you went and how you got there and lessons learned type of thing like that. That would be pretty cool.
Brian: Yeah, no, we could do that.
John: Awesome. All right, have a good one.